canyonwalker: Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Travel! (planes trains and automobiles)
When we went to Hawaii last month on a trip built around a timeshare presentation. Although we went in knowing there was 0% chance we were going to buy, new (yesterday's blog) the exercise did change my thinking a little on whether a timeshare, at the right price, is worth it for us. Here are Five Things I recommend anyone considering a timeshare consider before buying:

1) First, a timeshare is fractional ownership in a condominium. Maybe you already know this, but it's worth repeating. It's a real estate transaction. You are buying partial ownership in a property with the right to occupy it, say, one week per year. When you can stay that week may be limited by the terms of the contract and may also involve a lottery or first-come-first-serve reservation system.

2) Don't pay retail. As I explained in my previous blog on this topic, the timeshare industry manages to sell new timeshares for way more than they're worth. Second-hand timeshares— yes, you can resell them because they're real estate— can cost just half the new price and possibly way less.

But even once you find a good price there are still other factors to consider. You've got to compare the money you're spending on the mortgage / the opportunity cost of the cash you've bought it for, plus the annual maintenance fees, to other options for vacation accommodation.

3) Does a timeshare unit suit you better than a hotel? The first "compared to...' thought experiment I considered years ago was whether a timeshare is cheaper than just paying for a hotel room when on vacation. Unless you get a screaming deal on the timeshare price the answer is almost certainly No. But consider also that a timeshare unit gives you more than a hotel.

With a hotel you're getting a single room. (Yes, there are efficiencies and suites, but those can be way more expensive). With a timeshare you're getting, really, an apartment. It may be a 1-bedroom with a kitchen and living room, like the condo we had in Waikoloa, or it may have 2 bedrooms. The question, then, is whether you want/need the extra space.

When we were younger I thought, "Ha! No!" but now that I'm older— and more discerning from traveling a lot the past 15+ years— I see real value in a small apartment. And if you have kids, a 2-bedroom apartment is huge upgrade from a hotel room. In fact if you have a growing family you're probably looking at paying for two hotel rooms when you travel. At that point the cost of a timeshare can become favorable.

4) Do you want to go to the same place every year? I defined a timeshare in #1 above to emphasize that what you're buying is property. You're buying an interest in a specific condo tower, in a specific place. Do you want to go to the same place every year? Some people vacation like that, some don't.

To address that most timeshares belong to exchange networks that allow you to swap a week at your place for a week somewhere else. Trading by its nature is inefficient, though. I hear from relatives who own timeshares that they often up giving away their week or letting it go unused because they can't get out there to use it.

I suggest as a rule of thumb that you only buy a timeshare if you expect you'll stay there at least every second year. By that rule Hawaii isn't right for us... though a place like Lake Tahoe might be. We can drive to it, and it's a great jumping-off point for abundant outdoors activities we enjoy.

5) Do you want to stay for a week at a time? Even if everything else is right you need to consider whether staying in a place for a week at a time matches your vacation style. For many people, possibly even most people, it does. For us, though, it's a tough fit. Our vacation style is almost always to hop around. We love seeing different things when we travel and often only stay in one place for a day or two. If we stay in one place for 4-5 days that's a lot for us. That's a big reason why a timeshare remains a tough sell for us, even if we see one selling for pennies on the dollar.


canyonwalker: Mr. Moneybags enjoys his wealth (money)
I have a slightly dirty little secret. We planned our trip to Hawaii a month ago around a timeshare presentation. The pitch to go out there for the presentation came when we were planning, and re-planning, and re-re-planning our December Hawaii trip. One of the timeshare locations was on the Big Island of Hawaii, on the dry side, a destination we knew we wanted to visit. The deal was 5 nights in a small condo at a reduced rate, in exchange for spending 2 hours of our time sitting through a sales pitch. We then bolstered the trip with an additional 4 nights in Honolulu, bought plane tickets, and planned a week off from work.

The timeshare company failed to put a good foot forward when we arrived in Hawaii. The resort was comfortable but felt like it might as well be a golf resort in Scottsdale, Arizona, rather than a beach resort in Hawaii. I felt bait-and-switched. And when I visited the resort I expected to be accommodated at, that difference was so shocking that I was incensed. Any shot the company had at selling me a timeshare burned to ashes right then, right there. And that's where the real dirty little secret comes in: I wasn't going to buy, anyway.

Well, I wasn't going to buy new, at least. New timeshares are sold at significant markup. The same properties can be bought a year or two later on the resale market for generally no more than half their original price. Buyers who shop carefully, particularly in times of economic downturn, can pick up a timeshare from distressed sellers for as little as 5-10% of the original price. I've read accounts of people even buying a timeshare "for free", paying only for the annual maintenance and fees.

So, yeah, no way was I going to pay 2x or more the prevailing market price for a timeshare. Especially one effectively half an hour from the beach and lacking many services one expects in a resort.

RelatedWhen buying a timeshare makes sense



canyonwalker: Hangin' in a hammock (life's a beach)
Hawaii April Travelog #34
Waikoloa - Sat, 16 Apr, 2022, 10pm

After hiking at Hapuna Beach we came back to the resort for our last night in Hawaii. On the drive back in to the resort, just before dark, we enjoyed a special treat. Lava goats!



There's a flock of goats that lives near this resort. We saw them earlier in the week, too, just after sunset. It was getting pretty dark and I almost hit them as they were crossing the street. This evening there was better light when we crossed paths, and they were already across the road, clambering over the lava rocks. You can't see them all in this short video, but it's a sizeable wild flock. I saw at least 25 goats.

Once back at our suite we ate dinner in our own kitchen then changed for the hot tub. We figured we might as well enjoy one last hurrah here at the resort.

The hot tub was crowded this evening. All through the day we've seen people arriving at the property. The front desk had the welcome wagon rolled out. They even asked us if we were checking in when we went for our aborted timeshare sales presentation. Hmph, nobody was that welcoming when we actually checked in. The property looks to be way more crowded for this coming week than the week we've been here. It's good we were here during a quieter week. Until tonight we didn't have to deal with loud drunk people in the hot tub and unsupervised kids running up and down the halls.

Well, this is our last hurrah. Tomorrow morning we've got our alarms set for 6am. Our flight out leaves just after 9.
canyonwalker: My other car is a pair of hiking boots (in beauty I walk)
Hawaii April Travelog #33
Hapuna Beach - Sat, 16 Apr, 2022, 7pm

Leave it to us to go to a beach and say, "Let's go for a hike!" That's exactly what we did late this afternoon at Hapuna Beach. First we kicked off our sandals to walk through the sand and surf at Hapuna Beach, then we laced up our proverbial boots— actually we just put our sandals back on as we have hiking sandals— to hike the Ala Kahakai Trail.

Hapuna Beach and the Mauna Kea Resort (Apr 2022)

Before we got to the trail, though, we crossed to the north end of Hapuna Beach where the Mauna Kea Resort overlooks the water. Seeing these attractive buildings so near the water, with a great soft-sand beach just steps away, made me frustrated all over again about our accommodation a mile inland. Next to a golf course nobody uses. Where instead of water traps there are lava traps. ...How's that for The Floor Is Lava!?

I might have been happier staying at this property. One of the buildings is a Westin hotel. Maybe I could have used some of my 600,000+ Marriott points. It's the building in the back, though; the one with the beige walls, not the blue windows. But still, walk to the beach. And it probably has a restaurant with more than a kids menu. That's probably open past 6pm. 😣

Ala Kahakai Trail near Hapuna Beach (Apr 2022)

Once on the Ala Kahakai Trail I left the hotels and condos behind. Up here the sandy beach gives way to rough, lava-rock bluffs. There are private homes up here; they're out of the frame in the picture above. Some of them, it's obvious, are worth well into the 8 figures. And they're empty. Because people who can afford homes that spendy can afford 2 or more of them.

Ala Kahakai Trail (Apr 2022)

The trail crosses over some rough terrain. It's not so evident in the picture above but more so in the next one. I'm glad my sandals are hiking sandals. Some of the other folks walking the trail were wearing thongs. I could tell them were not happy.

The trail leads up to another beach, almost a mile north. I stopped just short of that beach because it was getting late. Hawk had already turned around, wanting to spend time in the surf back at Hapuna Beach before it got dark. I turned around, too, about 10 minutes after her.

Ala Kahakai Trail (Apr 2022)

This trail was interesting for its feeling of being remote and in the natural wilderness yet at the same time next to civilization. Next to empty $10 million house civilization, that is. In beauty I walk. For free.
canyonwalker: Mr. Moneybags enjoys his wealth (money)
Hawaii April Travelog #32
Waikoloa - Sat, 16 Apr, 2022, 3pm

This afternoon we were supposed to sit for our timeshare sales presentation. That sales effort was nominally the reason we're on this 5-night stay in Waikoloa on the Big Island. But it fizzled. We escaped without them even trying to sell us.

We planned our day around the 1:30 meeting that could've taken up to 2 hours. We took it easy in the morning, swimming in the pool next to our building instead of going out further afield. Of course, with gloomy weather today and rain in the forecast we were okay keeping close to home base. We even ate lunch in our condo instead of going out somewhere. That wasn't because of the weather, though. That was because, simple, the food here sucks. Add that to our (long) list of reasons why we wouldn't buy a timeshare. 😅

We went over to the main office right in time for our 1:30 appointment. One of the sales people welcomed us in to the sale suite and... Hawk had an allergic reaction right away. Literally, an allergic reaction. There was some kind of diffuser that was putting mint in the air, and she's allergic to mint. I could smell it clear as day— that's how strong it was— and Hawk started choking up. A coordinator led us to a safe place outside. The manager visited us to make sure we were okay.

The sales manager returned 10 minutes later and gave us the good news. They were overbooked with clients, she said. Nobody was actually available to pitch to us. She'd give us our door prizes— some Hilton Honors points and a $200 discount voucher for a night at a Hilton within the next 6 months— and cut us loose.

It was a great solution for us because we totally weren't going to buy anyway. It saved us the hassle of explaining all the reasons. Though a small part of me did want an opportunity to unload about how the timeshare company bait-and-switched us. I wonder if they had a spy microphone pointed at us out in the courtyard as Hawk and I discussed our talking points and decided, "Yeesh, we're not going to waste our time with that." 🤣

So now we're back at the room. We'll finish up bingeing some so-bad-it's-good TV then go out to a nearby beach late in the afternoon. We'll catch some more sunset action like we did last night!

canyonwalker: Hangin' in a hammock (life's a beach)
Hawaii April Travelog #23
Waikoloa - Wed, 13 Apr, 2022, 2pm

I woke up this morning still feeling wrecked from hiking the Koko Head Tramline trail on Monday. My legs are sore, particularly the quads and IT bands. I wobble when I walk even on level surfaces. Thus we decided instead of going on a driving and hiking trip on the Big Island today we'll stay around the resort. After all, it's a resort. Huge pools! The beach (even though it's a mile away)! So many activities!

We started the morning easy. There's a smaller pool and hut tub complex right next to our condo building. We relaxed there for an hour or 90 minutes after breakfast, enjoying the slower pace, lack of crowds, and not having to travel anywhere.

Around lunch time we drove over to the main Hilton hotel/timeshare complex. The one we were supposed to be in. As we entered the compound all the frustration I felt yesterday about being shunted off to an inferior property, the frustration I'd just barely gotten past, came back again. The main complex was freaking amazing.

Beach, lagoon, and activities at Hilton Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

There was a lagoon with people riding stand-up paddle boards and floating tricycles. There was a pool with dolphins people could pet. There were ocean views galore. And I was stuck commuting in from... frankly, a place that looks like resort-hotels I've stayed at in Phoenix.

Alas, all was not perfect out here at the oceanfront. There was still a lot of walking, which hurt my legs enormously. And all those fun looking activities like paddleboats and floating tricycles? Not in my current condition. 😢 Plus, having come out here for lunch, I found that it's basically the same shitty kids-menu-for-everybody food as back at the Phoenix annex.

Relaxing in front of the ocean at Hilton Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

I didn't spend the whole day being angry, though. It's not in my character. After I swallowed my renewed frustration at the bait-and-switch, swallowed the eye-watering prices for cruddy food, and swallowed (literally) the barely edible food, I found a lounge chair overlooking the ocean to lay out on. Actually, Hawk found the chair. I wasn't in lounge chair hunting mode since it hurt too much to walk around. I relaxed here for at least an hour while she splashed in the pools. I think I even managed a short nap with my hat pulled down over my eyes.
canyonwalker: wiseguy (Default)
Hawaii April Travelog #21
Waikoloa - Tue, 12 Apr, 2022, 5pm

From reading my previous post, Getting Settled in Waikoloa, you might think I'm really happy here. We've got a comfortable condo with a balcony and a big pool complex. What could possibly be wrong? The answer is, nearly everything is wrong. 😨

I booked this 5-night trip months ago as part of a timeshare marketing package. It was coincidentally when we were planning our previous Hawaii trip in December and I was straightening out a hotel cancellation with Hilton that I let them pitch me on prepaying for a travel package. The saleguy was listing locations we could go, and he had me at "Hilton Waikoloa Village." It's a nice resort that a trusted colleague of mine had said many nice things about in the past, and it's on the beach on the dry side of the Big Island— which we specifically wanted to go to. We'd actually looked at traveling to the Big Island for December's trip, but plans didn't work out. This was an opportunity to stay at a nice resort in a place we wanted to go, at a reduced price. Score, right?

Well, they bait-and-switched us. In the conversations with the sales people they talked about the Hilton Waikoloa Village. It's a 4-star hotel that's right on the beach and has amazing pools and several restaurants. Instead of being accommodated there we're in a step-sister property a mile away. It's laid out like a suburban condo complex, has pools that nice but not amazing, and has only one restaurant that basically only serves poolside snacks and is only open 11a-6p. Oh, and instead of a room overlooking the ocean steps from the beach, we're overlooking a parking lot. A mile from the ocean. And they wouldn't even give me a room 90 minutes before check-in time, making me wait instead until 15 minutes after check-in formally began.

The dashed expectations about location were buried in the fine print. The fine print— which they sent to me, but is not what any of the salespeople said to me— reads, "[a] Hilton area hotel or Hilton Grand Vacations Club resort." So they're within their terms of contract.

But you know what's within my terms of contract? Saying NO at the sales presentation.

You see, the reason timeshares like Hilton Grand Vacation Club offer this discounted stay package is that it's an advertisement. They want you to experience and enjoy a stay in a timeshare so you're more likely to buy one. We've got our sales presentation scheduled for Saturday. That's four days after our arrival... and within minutes of arrival they'd already 100% lost our sale.
canyonwalker: Hangin' in a hammock (life's a beach)
Hawaii April Travelog #20
Waikoloa - Tue, 12 Apr, 2022, 4:30pm

It was an easy drive up to Waikoloa from Kona this afternoon, just 30 minutes or so of driving past lava fields. We arrived a bit after 2pm, and our room wasn't ready yet. Once the front desk confirmed our reservation details and checked us in they told us we could use the pool while we waited. We took them up on that offer.

Pool at our condo in Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

This resort doesn't have the truly massive pool area I was expecting— more about missed expectations later— but it was attractive, with several pool areas, several small waterslides, a few waterfalls you can dunk yourself under (as shown in the pic above), and several hot tubs.

Enjoying the pool in Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

The water in the main swimming pools felt a bit cold for enjoyment so we spent most of our time in the other pools. Above, Hawk is peeking out from "cold" plunge pool. I quote cold because it was clearly warmer than the main pools. They really should call it the Tepid Plunge Pool, but that sounds kind of disgusting.

We got tired of the pools around 3:30. The front desk insisted our room couldn't possibly be ready until the official 4pm checkin time, so we went grocery shopping. At a grocery store a few miles away we rang up quite a tab, an eye-popping $100. ...And that was just on breakfast for tomorrow plus snacks for the next couple of days!

A text arrived just as we finished loading our $100 of groceries into 2 bags. Our room was finally ready. We returned to the resort and picked up the keys.

Our condo in Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

Our room at the resort is a basic one-bedroom suite. We have an open-plan kitchen/breakfast nook/living room straight in from the entry door. Off to the left are a reasonably sized bedroom and bathroom that's much bigger than it needs to be.

The amount of space here is a great change from our cramped room in Waikiki.

Balcony at our condo in Waikoloa (Apr 2022)

And we have a nice balcony! We've got a lovely third-floor view of the parking lot, mind you, but trees and other greenery and birds flitting around and chirping make it hands-down, far-and-away the nicest parking lot view I've ever had in a hotel room. 😂

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