canyonwalker: Sullivan, a male golden eagle at UC Davis Raptor Center (Golden Eagle)
When I wrote about age gap relationships yesterday one thing I wondered about is, what's normal? Well, I didn't just wonder. My cursory research turned up at least one reasonable study. "Reasonable", meaning scientifically rigorous and comprehensive. Simply polling people on social media is not rigorous. Even the journalist who basically polled people on social media in the article I wrote about yesterday admitted it doesn't represent reality.

An article I found from a few months ago in Psychology Today cites a recent study on the matter. "Age Gaps in Relationships: What Men and Women Prefer" (29 Jan 2025) cites a study published in December 2024 about the relative ages of partners at the start of relationships. The interesting finding is how the age gap preference changes over time and how it's different for men and women.

The study found that for people beginning a relationship in their early to mid 20s, men on average pair with a partner 3 years younger... and women on average pair with a partner 3 years older. There's a pleasing symmetry to that. And it also matches what I heard, as a matter of pop psychology, when I was in that age group many years ago. Plus, it matches my actual circumstance. My partner and I began our relationship in our early 20s, and I am 2 years older than her. We're right there near the average for our age and gender.

I'll include a summary table here for further illustration:

At age...Men pick a new partner...Women pick a new partner...
253 years younger3 years older
304 years younger2.5 years older
406 years younger1.5 years older
508 years younger0.5 years older
6010 years younger0.5 years younger
7012 years younger1.5 years younger
8014 years younger2.5 years younger


Another aspect that interesting about the study is that it showed men's preference for younger partners increased with age. At age 25, men starting new relationships picked partners 3 years young on average. The preference gap increased with each age increment, to an average of 10 years younger at 60 (60yo men picked 50yo partners on average) and 14 years by age 80. I don't have another rigorous dataset to compare this to but I will say it matches pop psychology I'm familiar with that says older men "date younger"— and noticeably so.

The third interesting aspect of the age gap study is that women, too, prefer younger and younger partners as they get older, though the gap in their preference is not as pronounced as it is with men. Women at age 25 prefer to "date older" with new partners, on average, 3 years older. This gap drops to near zero by age 50 and reverses to a "dating younger" in their 60s and beyond. The dating-younger gap for women is only a few years, though; not the 10-14 measured in men.


canyonwalker: Sullivan, a male golden eagle at UC Davis Raptor Center (Golden Eagle)
An article appeared in my newsfeed a few days about stating that the topic of age gap relationships has been going viral. I first saw it on BuzzFeed, which tends to pop up with its listicles in my news app, though a bit of further reading I did on the topic today shows that it's a reprint of an article that appeared in Huffington Post a few weeks ago. I'll share the HuffPo link here: Gen Z Is Particularly Weird About Relationship Age Gaps. Here's Why (12 July 2025).

Okay, so what is the answer to the question posed in the article's headline? Well, having read the article twice now (once at HuffPo, once at BuzzFeed) I'm honestly not sure there's a there, there. The author cites mostly social media hullabaloo about specific celebrity pairings but then opines, in a journalistic aside, that collective real opinions are generally more nuanced than what gets likes and retweets on services like X.

People having negative opinions about age gap pairings has been a fact for probably as long as there have been age gap pairings. Literary works from the 1800s wrote of "May-December romance". In the late 1900s terms like "gold digger" became popular, particularly when the relationship involved a significantly younger woman and a wealthy older man. The modernism of shaming women goes ways, BTW. In the early 2000s we heard the term cougar for older, financially stable women who pursue younger men for their looks and physical stamina.

My 2 cents on the matter is that I refrain from judging a priori but instead caution a couple, if they ask my opinion, "Are you in enough of the same place in life?" Because aside from egregious cases, like where the younger partner is underage or the older is in mental decline, that's the biggest challenge: the age gap makes your needs too incompatible.

I faced this question myself years ago. When I was about 22 I met "Jackie" through an online precursor to modern dating apps. Internet tech was primitive back then, so there was no easy filtering on things like age. Jackie and I hit it off as friends and hung out with each other, both in larger groups of friends and alone, several times. But Jackie was 10 years older than me. While we got along as friends we never clicked as romantic partners. And yes, I definitely was asking myself, "Can Jackie and I be romantic partners?" Cuz, duh, we met on a dating forum. I think she was asking herself the same thing, too, and waiting for me to initiate. (Internet wasn't the only thing more primitive back in the 1990s. 🤣)

Anyway, I thought long and hard about it, and decided No. We were good as friends, but I figured things would never work as romantic partners. Not long term, anyway. In a few months I'd be earning a degree and beginning a big job search to launch a new career. Whereas Jackie had already been doing her own thing for 10 years and had settled into a rhythm— one that wasn't exactly great relative to where I planned to take my career, BTW. I didn't see us being compatible.

The point of this anecdote isn't to establish 10 years as the cutoff for age gaps. Obviously it's going to depend on the question I posed— where are you each at in life? Plus, the number of years that put you too far apart in life is relative. 10 years is huge when you're 22 and meeting a 32-year old. 10 years is a lot less of a chasm when you're 52 and 62. When you're 22 even 5 years may be too much of a difference. As one of the people in the news article was quoted, "At 25, I wouldn’t even date a 21 year old."

Update: What's normal for age gaps? Here's one recent scientific study I found.

canyonwalker: wiseguy (Default)
Yesterday in a blog about the trials and tribulations of buying a mattress I recounted my frustration with a sales person who starting negging us. Folks who've been on the dating scene (or have read about it) anytime in the past 10 years know what negging is. But what about people who work in sales? In sales there is a useful technique called negative selling. It's very different from negging, though.

Negging, defined

Just a quick definition to make sure we're not talking past each other. Negging is a term coined by pickup artists (usually men) for using backhanded compliments as a form of emotional manipulation. A classic negging line would be, "Wow, you're way more interesting than I expected when I first saw you." There's clearly an insult here: they look like a dull person. The negger is combining an insult with a flirtatious remark to undermine the other person's confidence and lure them into seeking his approval.

Negative Selling, or "Unselling"

Most of the time selling techniques are what you'd call positive, or constructive. As a salesperson you're asking questions to understand your prospective customer's needs and you're explaining capabilities in your product and how they help solve those needs. Switching between positive and negative techniquesSometimes, though, the positive-constructive approach just isn't working. Your prospect isn't giving up much in the way of realistic needs and they're shooting down every value you're presenting. They may also be carping (repeatedly) about things like, "I don't get why it's so expensive." At that point you might try negative selling, or unselling.

With the technique of negative selling you agree with the customer's negative remarks. An example I might use in enterprise software sales is, "A lot of organizations buy this product for its security features, to prevent software supply chain intrusions. If security's not that important to your organization, this product might not be the right fit."

Unlike with negging, the purpose here isn't emotional manipulation. The purpose here is to qualify in or qualify out the prospect. I.e., figure out whether or not this prospect is worth continuing with. Many prospects are not! As a sales professional it's critical to understand where (and with whom) to spend your time and effort.

Where the mattress seller messed up

The mattress salesguy messed up in two ways. First, he made his negatives personalized to us, not the situation. That's a key difference between negging, in the slimy pickup artist sense, and negative selling in business. Second, his attempt at negative selling was mis-timed. We weren't dismissing his value-selling or carping about things beyond his control; we were still asking questions. When your sales prospect is still asking legit questions you are totally in positive-constructive selling still. Switching to negative selling prematurely is a power move that shuts down the prospect's questions and runs a big risk of pissing them off.

We were pissed off and left.

canyonwalker: Mr. Moneybags enjoys his wealth (money)
Continuing with my theme of how couple should manage their money together, my topic today is how many bank accounts a pair of people in a relationship should have. After "How should we share expenses?", which i wrote about yesterday, it's the next most common question I see in financial advice columns and blogs. And the two questions are related. How you set up your bank accounts is closely tied to how you share money and split expenses.

When Hawk and started living together years ago the modern advice was to have 3 bank accounts: one for each person in their name alone, and one joint account from which shared bills can paid. The idea was this preserved each partner's independence, via money and fiscal control that was theirs alone, while also making it simple to share common expenses. That was different from the more traditional arrangement, where couples once married would have a single household bank account. Often the woman in the relationship would have little control over the money.

As an aside, I can only shake my head at how the 3-accounts strategy that was the new advice 25-30 years ago still seems to be the new advice today. So many questions or stories on this topic in financial advice blogs are from women who are trying to avoid, or recover from, loss of financial control.

Anyway, back to what worked for us.

3 Accounts, in Spirit if not in Practice

When we moved in together we embraced 3 accounts idea... in spirit. We each had our own accounts but no shared account. One of the other of us would pay each bill for shared expenses (rent, utilities, food) then about once a month we'd figure out the difference and one person would write the other a check to even it out.

Why no shared account? Frankly because bank accounts are not free. Even the credit union I belonged to had a monthly account fee that was only waived if you had either direct deposit of your paychecks or a certain minimum account balance— a minimum that was high for people just getting started out. Having a third account would've meant paying fees. Evening it up ourselves once a month, even in the old days of adding stuff up on calculators and then writing a check, was easier than paying a fee. BTW if we were starting out today we'd do the same thing— though with a tool like Venmo or Zelle to even out the payments.

If 3 is Good, 6 is Better!

As we built up our finances we did open a third account... once we had enough money to meet the minimums across multiple accounts. And then we opened a fourth account, and a fifth, and more!

We opened the second trio of accounts specifically as savings accounts, separate from our checking accounts. In terms of discipline, checking accounts are for regular expenses. We auto-deposit our paychecks and pay bills there. Savings accounts we only touch for bills if they're major, planned purchases. More importantly, in terms of financial structure, the savings accounts are high yield. We hold them at banks that pay great interest rates. Most banks and even most credit unions pay essentially 0% interest on checking account balances. The best high-yield accounts are paying close to 3% today.

Advice You Can Bank On

My advice to people starting out (or starting over) today is three simple recommendations:

  1. If you're in a long term relationship, use the 3-accounts approach— in spirit (like we did for several years) if not in practice.

  2. If you're living mostly paycheck-to-paycheck, focus on finding a good checking account with as low fees as possible.

  3. Once you're able to start saving, open a high-yield savings account and start transferring there whatever money you don't need for regular expenses. (Note this isn't investing. Investing is the next step, and it's a major one.)

canyonwalker: Mr. Moneybags enjoys his wealth (money)
This month I'm writing a series of blogs on how we split responsibilities and finances in our household. The prompts for this topic are advice articles about family/couples finance I've read in my newsfeed. On the whole I'm unimpressed with the advice peddled by supposed professionals. Some of the suggestions are weak, some are ridiculous, and some are like, "Is this still news? I thought this was news 30 years ago." So I'm sharing what's worked for me/us and what I/we have learned.

This blog addresses the question, "What's a good way for people in a relationship to split expenses?" As you'll see in a moment we've handled that three different ways as our relationship has progressed.

 When we were dating we kept our money and expenses separate. That made sense because we were living separately. Rent, utilities, groceries, etc. were separate bills for each of us. (Or were things that we split equitably with our respective housemates.) When it came to dates we took turns paying. That was somewhat avant garde at the time, in the mid 1990s, though our expectation was that it was becoming normal. Surprisingly nearly 30 years later it's not widespread.

Our choice to take turns paying for dates was partly a matter of finances. We were both students on slim budgets, so it made sense to alternate who pays instead of the guy (traditionally) always paying. But it was also key for how our relationship worked. It was important to me in choosing a partner to find a career-minded woman capable of being financially independent. And for Hawk it was important to find a parter who didn't try to take away her independence.

 While living together we kept our money separate but shared common expenses. We continued keeping our finances separate while living together. There was no reason to merge them. Rent, utilities, and grocery shopping were common expenses we split. One or the other of us would pay each bill, and we'd even up at the end of the month. I contributed slightly more than half of the rent because my salary was higher. The other common expenses we split 50/50. Things we kept personal were car costs (purchase, maintenance, insurance) and individual meals dining out. When we dined out together we charged those meals to a different credit card we split 50/50 each month.

 After we married we merged our finances and began paying ourselves "allowances". Once we got married we turned around the question from "How do we split expenses?" to "How do we split our the money that's left?" It's an idea I got from an older friend who'd been married several years where both partners were professionals with full time jobs. We merged our finances and treat all of our income as joint income. Paychecks go into a shared account. All regular bills get paid out of it. That includes obvious things like mortgage, insurance, and grocery shopping; but also car payments, gas, dining out, travel, and entertainment. Whatever's not spent is transferred to joint savings. The rule is that every expense paid from the joint account has to be mutually agreed upon.

One of those mutual agreements is that we each get an "allowance" of a few hundred dollars per paycheck. We transfer that money to our personal accounts where we each have total individual discretion over how to spend it. This gives us the advantage of managing one set of primary finances, for household expenses and household savings, while having small personal accounts over which each us of has sole discretion.
canyonwalker: Sullivan, a male golden eagle at UC Davis Raptor Center (Golden Eagle)
Is the US in a recession?

Many people are asking that question since the Commerce Department reported yesterday that US GDP contracted in the 2nd quarter at an annualized rate of 0.9%. That comes on the heels of a 1.6% annualized contraction in the first quarter this year. The commonly understood technical definition of a recession is "two consecutive quarters of negative growth", so it would appear we're there. But it's not that simple.

Officially, recessions are determined by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), a nonprofit organization. And within the NBER the Business Cycle Dating Committee, a group of 8 economists, decide when recessions happen. Generally the Dating Committee only determines that a recession began months after the two-consecutive-quarters definition was met. Largely that's because GDP numbers get revised all the time. Think of the figure announced yesterday as the preliminary number. It could be revised higher or lower as more data from Q2 becomes available.

In addition, the simple definition "two consecutive quarters of negative growth" is not just simple, it's simplistic. Many other factors determine whether the country is in a recession— a label that is fraught with social and political meaning.

A common ingredient of recession— and a key part of that social and political meaning— is unemployment. A recession is a time when unemployment rises, job growth is flat, and wages are stagnant. Right now none of these are the case. Unemployment is 3.6%, still low by historical standards. New jobs are still being added to the economy at a healthy pace, and wages are up a lot this year. Just look at all the stories in the news about how people are leaving jobs because they're being offered more money somewhere else, and employers are struggling to hire. Numerous government officials, from the Treasury secretary to the Federal Reserve chair, have pointed to labor data as a reason why we're not actually in a recession right now.

Keep readingBut most people think we're in a recession....

canyonwalker: wiseguy (Default)
A few weeks ago I posted about how we still have a few dozen tea lights from a sack of 200 we bought 25 years ago. You might wonder what one uses to light candles that have been around that long and have survived multiple house moves. Well, the answer is... matches that are even older and have followed me through even more house moves!

I just finished this matchbook from the restaurant my wife and I visited on our first date... in 1994! It's now 2022.

Last night I tore the last match out of this packet and used it to light one of the candles. Today I went into my drawer for a box of matches and thought about how they date back to 1995. I remember the occasion for which I bought them; it was a camping trip. Then I thought about how the Mick's matchbook is even older. I've had it since September 1994. I know that because I remember picking up this matchbook from the restaurant Hawk and I visited on our first date together. That's over 27 years ago now!

canyonwalker: wiseguy (Default)
Today I saw the hashtag #WorstFirstDate about, well, people's worst first dates. It's promoted by TV host Jimmy Fallon, presumably to share on his show, or at least remind people he's still relevant. My worst first date was quite a number of years ago... so it's apropos I saw on Thursday, aka #TBT - Throwback Thursday. For this story set your wayback machine to 1994.

BTW, when I told my wife I remember my worst first date after all these years, she asked, "Is it the one when I threw up?"

Ha ha, no. That wasn't a first date. It was a third date, depending on how you count it. And in the grand scheme of all dates it was only the second worst. 😅

A story of Netflix and Chill, being wrong-numbered, and ghosting— all 1994 style! )

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